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Edited by Noah Shachtman | Contact

Big Guns Go Silent

Robert Novak has an editorial on the Navy's plan to decommission it's last two battleships, the Iowa and the Wisconsin. He's pitching a line for the Marine Corps, whose commandant General Mike Hagee told Congress two years ago that the loss of naval surface fire support would place his troops "at considerable risk."

wisconsin.jpgThe Senate Arms Services Committee is considering a bill that would turn the two ships into museums. I was on a tour of the Wisconsin at Norfolk and I can tell you it's a hell of a ship. Very impressive, especially with the World War II veterans telling you stories on the tour about its history. What's interesting is Novak's story of an "anti-battleship bias" within the Navy, that the Navy somehow never liked the big ships since World War II and it's all a military-industrial complex plot to get funds for the next generation destroyer DD(X).

[As Defense Tech guru David Axe noted a few weeks back, Navy vets are leading a campaign to put the two mothballed battleships back into service as alternatives to the $3-billion-per-copy new-jack destroyer, which is being touted as a fire-support platform but, according to the Naval Fire Support Association, will provide only a fraction of the firepower of the old BBs at far greater cost, and much later. -- ed.]

Now I don't know the Navy well enough to see if this anti-battleship conspiracy story is true or not, and I'm hoping that someone from the Navy side can clarify this story. My observations within the Pentagon were that the Navy surface guys pretty much rule over their cousins in the Navy air, shore, and submarine fleet. It somehow seems strange to think that the Navy surface community would eschew these ships. This 2004 GAO report provides some more background. Seems that the last time the Navy used battleships was during the Persian Gulf War in 1991, then they made plans to mothball the ships. Congress intervened and told them to keep at least two ships on inactive duty while the Navy was to develop an alternative firepower solution by modifying the 5 inch guns on the destroyers. That hasn't happened yet.

These battleships are old, they're expensive to maintain, and the industry doesn't support manufacture of the ammunition for the big guns. The Marine Corps does have air support and field artillery systems for fire support. I don't see the justification to keep battleships just so you have an option to fire on North Korean military structures, as Novak alludes. Maybe it's time for the big guns to go silent?

-- Jason Sigger, crossposted at Armchair Generalist

THERE'S MORE: Check out heavy-gunned debate going on over at Murdoc's place.

Latest Comments

I have wondered at the power that the battleship.They are of an era that brings to thought ship against ship battle.I think,my humble position,that this platform is still viable.Bear with me as I digress.The Marines have a very hard job.They are required to assault places that are not ideally suited to land based artillery.So a sea based system is ideal.Second,the platform already exists.Third,with the technology that we posess we can make this happen.Why create a new class of ship.To make a ship builder out of luck rich?My proposal:let the Marines have the Battle ships.The ships leave alot for improvements.But that is why their size makes them great.They have lots of room for the technology of the future.Let the people who have the most to lose choose the means to that end,and let the tax dollars fall where they may.I have faith that the Marines know what they need why don't you?

Posted by: Earle at November 16, 2006 8:27 AM


ive been thinking about joining sence i was 8 ive latley been leanin twards the marines or the navy.(please exscuse the spellin i dont have a lot of time). but anyways to me its like this both the idea of having a small fast stealthy dd and the bbs both offer great help to our militarys armed forces.

reactivating the bbs for the time being just seems to make a lot more sence to me this is not some sentamental statement but my opinion on things battle ships offer alot more than the dds to me 1they have more surviveability than any other ship in the navy sence last i read nothin short of a nuke can take one out above the waterline but there cheapper and can just be updated to future weapon systems such a railguns or if you want remove the stern gunturret and make it into a air deck for jumpjets (see airforces and surface assets in one makes everyone happy) but also more room for spec.ops teams and marine helos plus........well it just is plain old cheaper and if you want to swith amo in a hurry you can from area supression rounds to bunkerbusters to well who knows what else we can come up with thing is what happens if one day somebody figures out a way around stealth............basicly were screwed besides no weapon or armor has ever been invented somebody hasent figured out a way to cercumvent hmm lot more than i ment to say but well thereit is if you disagree with me i dont care just my opinion

and think about when this country puts it mind to it what cant we accomplish

Posted by: james at May 24, 2006 9:12 PM


The age of the battleship was over before it began. It never really played a decisive role in any conflict. Read "Sacred Vessels: The Cult of the Battleship and the Rise of the US Navy" by Robert O'Connell. Seeing as how they never effectively accomplished their original mission, keeping them around with all the logistical support that's required just to provide naval bombardment for marines comes off as ridiculous. That's a fairly skewed perspective of the role of the navy. I know that the focus going towards littoral warfare but it is quite another to build the entire navy around floating artillery for ampbhibious operations. Need I remind people that we haven't done a large scale opposed amphibious landing since Inchon during the Korean War? The Persian Gulf War did serve as a final glory hour for the battleship but its capability has been more than replaced. The navy is not anti-battleship, I've heard many people in the navy express admiration for them. They just don't like big fat targets sitting out in the water that they then requires them to tie up smaller ships to defend.

On a side note, surface guys do not rule over the air community. In fact, I'd say that the navy is very aviation centered. The carrier remains the center of naval operations and it would be silly to say otherwise. All of their best weapons systems are geared towards air warfare.

Posted by: yvgeny at December 9, 2005 2:13 PM


I guess the navy still hasn't learned the lessons of WWII, Korea, Vietnam & Persian Gulf.
The battleship is still the best ground support we have in the navies arsenal to protect amphibious assaults, just ask any marine who has participated & he'll tell you what he knows helped him stay alive.
I know that there are Harrier jets that have been assigned to that same task & they do a good job but the battleship can stay on scene a longer period of time & hit the enemy all that valuble time saving many marine lives & isnt that whats most important!!!
Lets honor all the brave men & women who serve & all those who made the ultimate sacrafice by trying to save many more from having to meet the same fate!!! tryng to serve our country.
Joe Cottone
Valley Stream NY

Posted by: Joe Cottone at December 7, 2005 2:25 PM


My grandfather fought at Okinawa and he told me that the sound of battleship support was like a roar from God. The japanese ahead of him would cower with fear at the thought of a Volkswagon beetle sized projectile landing next to them.

We need these ships.

Posted by: Fidel at December 7, 2005 1:44 PM


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