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Edited by Noah Shachtman | Contact

Behind the Kitty Hawk Incident (Updated)

Several readers have given me all kinds of grief for not posting about the USS Kitty Hawk incident. My apologies -- I didn't feel like I had a whole lot to add to the story, about a Chinese Song-class sub shadowing an American carrier group.

song_sub.jpgThe In From the Cold intel blog has some insights, however. "Spook86" notes that America's sub-detection capabilities have been on the decline for a while, now.

With the collapse of the old Soviet Navy in the early 1990s, the USN [U.S. Navy] began to de-emphasize its ASW [anti-submarine warfare] capabilities, figuring that the preeminent submarine threat had essentially evaporated, and it would take years -- perhaps decades -- for a similar challenge to emerge.

But Rear Admiral Hank McKinney, the former commander of the U.S. Pacific Fleet's submarine force, tells us not to be to hard on the sub-hunters:

Noah, I have no inside information on this event, but it is very difficult to detect a quiet diesel submarine and the Song-class submarines are quality submarines. Operating in international waters in the vicinity of a US battle group is perfectly normal -- good operational training.

The Chinese very well could have staged this event to make a point about the vulnerability of the Battle Group to submarine attack. The US Navy is fully aware of [those] vulnerabilities...

The Chinese are building a credible submarine force which will make it very difficult for the US Navy to maintain sea control dominance in or near coastal waters off of China.

McKinney concludes with a question: Did the Chinese "stage this event" to coincide with Adm. Gary Roughead's visit to China? Roughead currently serves as "CINCPACFLT" -- Commander of the U.S. Pacific Fleet.

(Big ups: Chuck)

UPDATE 11/15/06 11:25 AM: More from the Washington Times and In From the Cold.

UPDATE 11/15/06 11:50 AM: This will make China-hawks' heads explode. But the chief of U.S. forces in the Pacific, Admiral William Fallon, says the incident highlights the need for closer Sino-American ties.

"There is a need to have a fundamental understanding," he said, adding that Admiral Gary Roughead, head of the U.S. Pacific Fleet, was currently visiting China for the first naval exercise between the United States and the People's Liberation Army.

"This is the kind of thing that we must encourage and continue so we can move ahead from what I would characterize as kind of Cold War thinking and truly broaden the dialogue."

Meanwhile, as Brad notes in the comments, Barnett is yawning.

Latest Comments

Scrap the carriers and build subs? Are you nuts? Of course we need subs, but subs can't carry planes, and air power trumps subs every day of the week, especially in a land conflict. What we really need are some intimidating Battleships, like the Iowa-class. During the Iraq War #1, the Iraqis were terrified of the Battleships off their coastline lobbing VW-weight shells their way. I think we need to spook the Iranians with them again, just for the fun of it.

Posted by: Max at January 19, 2007 8:53 PM


The elephant in the room here is that the carrier is no longer the capital ship. It has gone the way of the battleship and been replaced by the submarine. ASW efforts only waste resources - scrap the carriers and build subs...

Posted by: Phaedrus at December 22, 2006 5:27 PM


The Collins class boats used by Australia gave a good account of themselves http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2003/09/23/1064082993693.html not I think powered by an AIP system but good old fashioned diesel & batteries from Kockums of Sweden. Train hard and fight easy on the lessons learned.

Posted by: JQP at November 16, 2006 10:36 AM


Senario #1 - Was the Chinese Song-class submarine under the total (100%) control of a U.S. friendly crew (military or otherwise) 100% allied with the United States or NATO? If so, then this goes a long way in explaining why the sub was permitted within or near the sensitive security perimeter of the USS Kitty Hawk.

Senario #2 - Now if Senario #1 is not the case then we have a huge problem; and it does not matter what the reason(s) is(are) for the sub's surfacing. And that's because if the Chinese Song-class submarine was armed it could have taken out the USS Kitty Hawk (4000+ lives) and whatever other ships it desired; and doing this with the full expectation that after such an attack the submarine itself would probably be destroyed, either by the sub's crew or by the United States assets in the region. While one shudders at the thought of Senario #2, have we forgotten about the USS Cole disaster?

Posted by: L. at November 16, 2006 10:26 AM



Why interpret the actions of the SONG as super aggressive? Yeah, the US got humiliated, sure, but no navy person worth their salt will begrudge any rival crew a chance to enjoy some public laurels from successful compeletion of a competent tactical manuever. I mean, I ask you guys this--Would it not have been MUCH more aggressive to remain submerged, and to allow the carrier group to pass without "detecting" the SONG? China sacrificed both tactical AND strategic advantage to, essentially, be diplomatic and wave as the Kitty Hawk passed by.

Sure, China's a challenging country, but don't reject the idea that China's Navy MIGHT JUST actually be more grateful for high-level USN attention than some of the DC China baiters realize!

Back to the SONG. You guys may not know that HMS Gotland did a similar thing to an unnamed carrer (in almost identical conditions, I suspect..hmm) relatively recently. Navy's response--knowing the navy--was probably an immediate hobbling HMS Gotland (reduce zone of ASW operations, limit the sub's operational options, etc.) and thus insuring ASW "success." (See some of the effusive stuff on US ASW capability in Proceedings..shesh!) Rather than "solve" the darn ASW problem, I fear some Naval bureaucrats made the problem "go away."

Now, at least, that SONG may have done double duty in diplomacy AND in alerting us--in a very up-front fashion--to mend our ASW shortcomings, and, hopefully, force a needed injection of reality into AIP-sub threatened operations (AND into the HMS Gotland exercises off San Diego, for that matter!).

What the heck--The Navy should invite that ballsy SONG captain to the US and have him give a lecture to the ASW commanders on the importance of conducting real-world--rather than sham--ASW exercises! Give him a six-course meal and enough drink and we might get some neat info from him too, hey...

Posted by: Springbored at November 16, 2006 12:54 AM


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