Got a tip for Noah?
SEND IT!
(Guaranteed Confidential)
Subscribe

Subscribe via RSS

Archives by Date
February 2007
January 2007
December 2006

See all Archives
Archives by Category
'Canes
Ammo and Munitions
Armor
Axe in Iraq (and Elsewhere)
Bizarro
Blimps
Blog Bidness
Bomb Squad
Cammo Green
Chem-Bio
Cloak and Dagger
Comms
Cops and Robbers
Data Diving
Dissent Tech
Drones
Eat My Dust
Eye on China
FCS Watch
FOS Files
Gadgets and Gear
Ground Vehicles
Guns
Homeland Security
Info War
Iraq Diary
Lasers and Ray Guns
Less-lethal
Logistics
Los Alamos and Labs
Medic!
Mercs
Missiles
Money Money Money
Net-Centric
Nukes
Planes, Copters, Blimps
Politricks
Rapid Fire
Raptor Watch
Red Team
Retro-Futuro
Roll Your Own
Sabra Tech
Ships and Subs
Space
Strategery
Terror Tech
The Deadlies
Those Nutty Norks
Training and Sims
War Update
You can run...

See all Archives
Related Links
News and Intel
Military.com News
Aviation Week
Natl Defense Mag
Strategy Page
Global Security Newswire
Soldiers for the Truth
Security News
Defense Review
Fed Comp Week

Security Sources
GlobalSecurity.Org
Fed Am Sci
CSIS
Ctr for Defense Info
Defense & Natl Interest
Instit for Sci & Intl Secy
Secrecy News
POGO
Cryptome
The Memory Hole
Natl Security Archive

Geeks and Mad Scientists
Slashdot
Wired News
Security Focus
The Register
Gizmodo
Geek Press
Robots.Net
Cosmic Log
Space Daily
New Scientist
TechCentralStation
Engadget
Space.Com
Technology Review
Gyre
Near Near Future
Fed Dev Blog

Bloggers and Buddies
Phil Carter
Global Guerillas
Jeffrey Lewis
Milblogging
OPFOR
Laura Rozen
Larisa Alexandrovna
Juan Cole
Ryan Singel
Josh Marshall
Cursor
Boing Boing
InstaPundit
Winds of Change
Tapped
TalkLeft
Brad DeLong
Mountain Runner
Gene Healy
Clive Thompson
Greg Djerejian
Jeff Quinton
Workbench
Electrolite
Jim Henley
War in Context
Kathryn Cramer
Wash Park Prophet
Blogs of War
Tom Shachtman

Official Dispatches
DARPA
AF Research Lab
Marine War Lab
Soldier Systems Ctr
Naval Research
Army Research Lab
UK Def Sci Lab
NASA News
DoJ Cybercrime

Military Network
Military Benefits
Veteran Employment
GI Bill Express
Personnel Locator
Free ASVAB
The Few
Fred's Place
Army Insider
Navy Insider
Air Force Insider
Marine Corps Insider
Coast Guard Insider



Edited by Noah Shachtman | Contact

More Antiwar Protests in Military Database

The Talon database started as a way for the Defense Department to collect tips on possible threats to military facilities. But as the program grew, those tips of so-called "suspicious incidents" became themselves more and more suspect.

keyboard.jpg

One “incident” included in the database is a large anti-war protest at Hollywood and Vine in Los Angeles last March that included effigies of President Bush and anti-war protest banners. Another incident mentions a planned protest against military recruiters last December in Boston and a planned protest last April at McDonald’s National Salute to America’s Heroes — a military air and sea show in Fort Lauderdale, Fla.

The Fort Lauderdale protest was deemed not to be a credible threat and a column in the database concludes: “US group exercising constitutional rights.”

New documents, obtained by the ACLU, catalog more, previously-undisclosed monitoring of free speech, in the name of force protection. A Veterans for Peace march in Las Cruces, New Mexico, is tagged a "threat to military facilities." A "church service for peace" in New York is labeled "potential terrorist activity."

"The Defense Department tightened its procedures earlier this year to ensure that only material related to actual terrorist threats — and not peaceable First Amendment activity — was included in the database," the New York Times reports.

The head of the office that runs the military database, which is known as Talon, said Monday that material on antiwar protests should not have been collected in the first place.

“I don’t want it, we shouldn’t have had it, not interested in it,” said Daniel J. Baur, the acting director of the counterintelligence field activity unit, which runs the Talon program at the Defense Department. “I don’t want to deal with it.”

When the NSA's warantless wiretapping program was revealed, defenders of the effort told us not to worry. "Before we intercept these communications, the government must have information that establishes a clear link to these terrorist networks," the President said last December.

But it's the creeping expansion of a program like Talon, from counterintelligence to counter-dissidence, that gets folks like me so concerned about domestic spying without legal review. Sure, the programs start out with the best of intentions. But it becomes way too easy for a bureaucracy to slide into something that's just plain wrong.

Latest Comments

Good Morning Sam,

Sorry but the "Times" printed, a widely reprinted story, yesterday morning, the story about "Marine Snipers". Good story for the Marines but for anybody wanting to know what is happening inthe al Anbar it is at the very least desceptive if not intentionally misleading to the readrer.

Left out of the article is the reason why Marine Snipers have been under productive, the piece used business terms to describe what the sniper does, they gave credit to a few kids and Shepards giving away the snipers positions. Nothing was said about how almost all intelligence in al Anbar has been comprimised, yeah kids. The Euphrades is a Terrorists Interstate and the U.S. is powerless to stop 'em.

The article neglects to mention the report by marine Col. Peter Devlin on the hopeless sisuation the Marines are dealing with in al Anbar.

The article fails to mention that the six sniper team killed by the insurgents were part of the 3/23 Marines, a Reserve Batallion that was shamelessly (over) used instead of better trained Regular Marine Batillions by the chain of command as the go to unit in the al Anbar.

Why Sam have Americans like General Tommy Franks and Henry Kissinger, among other felt compelled to do interviews with thr foreugn press instead of "The New York Times" when they were in disagreement with the Bush White House?

Only a couple of weeks ago CENTOM threatened to cut off CNN's imbeds if they didn't report the news the way CENTCOM wanted it. CNN changed there way, quickly.

Sorry Sam but the Times as well as the rest of the American media has "knuckled under" to the Joseph Goebbels control of the Bush White House, someone in the west wing says oh sh** and everybody at the Times starts looking for the tiolet paper, your holding it in your hand, it's called The New York Times.

ALLONS,
Byron Skinner

Posted by: Byron Skinner at November 22, 2006 2:38 PM


I eagerly await defense techs take on storys such as this and other 'evil goverment are being meanies' BS storys when/if the dems come into power again. somehow i feel they will not make it to these pages, wonder why that is....

Posted by: ShepUk at November 22, 2006 11:09 AM


Byron,

If you're arguing that the Times was used as a propaganda mill by the president at anytime, I think you're sorely mistaken.

What has changed people's mind is the unrelenting assault by journalists who think they have a handle on the truth when they don't.

Look at David Axe, here on Defensetech. He's getting it wrong all the time. His latest was the argument that the US should be copying British tactics. Even though they operate in an environment completely different from where the US is operating.

Other journalists are failing us too. Lately it appears as if all of Iraq is tearing itself to pieces. Closer investigation reveals it parts of Iraq-but that's to complex to report. Years ago reporters screamed about the lack of gear for troops, ignoring the sucess of RFI.

I got a thrill out of serving in Iraq, watching something happen-then seeing it reported improperly a day or two later. It shocked me and opened my eyes-but it gave me something to do.

Back in 2004 it seemed the media was cheering on a Civil War. Maybe, they should have been concentrating on the failures to adequately prepare US trainers then or a million other more significant issues. At times it seems reporters were obsessed with civil war, or sunni v. shia-when Iraq is far more complex then just two sides fighting.

Inaccuracy and blatant falsehoods by the "peace" movement have undermined support for the war too. Americans seem to be in a fantasy world when it comes to how difficult nation-building here will be however. That's part of the problem-this is the hardest job to do.


Posted by: Sam at November 22, 2006 6:28 AM


Good Evening Folks,

This is an example of the Pentagon just not getting it. They can use Talon to generate all the data bases they like, as we use to say "It don't mean nottin'".

Street protests are quaint and create an enviroment for old 60's, tie dyed, bald with poney tail and granny dress types to get together, replay "Country Joe McDonald" and lie about being at Woodstock, but it has nothing to due with how the resistence to the war in Iraq developed.

The change in Americans opinion about the war has been brought about by the internet and web sites such as Defense Tech. Discusssions and discourse about the issues and uncovering the untruths in the main stream media and public announcments has what changed peoples minds.

This is called "Information Centric Warfare" and our DoD doesn't have a clue. They have lost the war outside as well as inside the United States.

The mainstream media sold out and bought into Bush from the begaining. Our paper of record (?) "The New York Times" begain with Judith Miller pumping up the war to John Burns the unofficial Bush minister of information. Everytime John Burns shows up in Baghdad you know something is about to go down, he is easly more predictable the the weather.

The war with a 63% disapproval rating only two years after Bush being relected is amazing. Street protest could never have done this so fast. The Pentagon instead of using Talon or Carnavor Programs might start by telling the truth in the begaining.

ALLONS,
Byron Skinner

Posted by: Byron Skinner at November 22, 2006 1:33 AM


as i read the article, i tend to remember the ugly language of many of the antiwar protesters, and then specifically two events, one in southern california and another in Washington state where military recruiters were manhandled and their recruiting efforts curtailed. also numerous speaking events by conservative speakers that have been physically disruptedy either by something as simple as pie throwing or storming the stage a la columbia. i remember at least ten cases reported in the papers of folks taking pictures of bridges and facilities at unusual hours. i am sure there are other events but remembering those events certainly make keeping the database more reasonable. finally, i always favor incompetance over conspiracy whenever error pop ups in these data bases

Posted by: geraldr at November 21, 2006 10:02 PM


» View All 8 Comments

» Post a Comment