Wow. Everyone — and I mean everyone — hates the Baker Commission report. “Group studies Iraq- fails to find clue bag,” proclaims the conservative Blackfive milblog. “The report is a dud,” sighs the lefty Americablog. And Fred Kaplan mopes:
The report of the Iraq Study Group… was doomed to fall short of expectations. But who knew it would amount to such an amorphous, equivocal grab bag.Its outline of a new “diplomatic offensive” is so disjointed that even a willing president would be left puzzled by what precisely to do, and George W. Bush seems far from willing.
Its scheme for a new military strategy contains so many loopholes that a president could cite its language to justify doing anything (or nothing).
The award for today’s most original Baker hate belongs to Defense Tech pal Spencer Ackerman:
Given the specific lineup of the 10 wise men and women serving on the Iraq Study Group, the most conspicuous absence is that of supermodel Heidi Klum. Sure, she has no relevant experience in foreign policy, nor any real knowledge of Iraq — but neither do commissioners Sandra Day O’Connor, Vernon Jordan, Alan Simpson, or Edwin Meese. What Klum does have to offer is a lesson completely lost on the commission, one taught each week on her hit reality show Project Runway: you’re either in, or you’re out. When it comes to Iraq, it’s good advice.
OK, no Heidi Klum, I can understand. My question is: Why no veterans? Why no people that have actually fought this war?
UPDATE 8:23 AM: “The military recommendations issued yesterday by the Iraq Study Group are based more on hope than history and run counter to assessments made by some of its own military advisers,” says the Times.
In essence, the study group is projecting that a rapid infusion of American military trainers will so improve the Iraqi security forces that virtually all of the American combat brigades may be withdrawn by the early part of 2008…Jack Keane, the retired Army chief of staff who served on the group’s panel of military advisers, described that goal as entirely impractical. “Based on where we are now we can’t get there,” General Keane said in an interview, adding that the report’s conclusions say more about “the absence of political will in Washington than the harsh realities in Iraq.”
UPDATE 10:02 AM: “Iraqi politicians and analysts said Wednesday [that] the report… neither addresses nor understands the complex forces that fuel Iraq’s woes. They described it as a strategy largely to help U.S. troops return home and resurrect America’s frayed influence in the Middle East,” according to the Washington Post.
“It is a report to solve American problems, and not to solve Iraq’s problems,” said Ayad al-Sammarai, an influential Sunni Muslim politician.
UPDATE 12/08/06 9:42 AM: Phil Carter read the list of people consulted by the Iraqi Study Group. He’s not happy.
[It's] a long and distinguished list, to be sure. But one group of people seemed to be conspicuously absent from the list.
Grunts. Not just infantrymen, but military enlisted personnel and junior officers generally. I don’t see any officers below the military rank of Lieutenant Colonel listed in the ISG’s report. And there are zero enlisted personnel listed. What gives? Counterinsurgencies are won or lost at the local level, so it would’ve made an awful lot of sense to talk with a few troops who’ve served at that level.
Not that Bush is listening to Baker and company, anyway.
Seriously, they couldn’t have picked a worse panel. I pray for the country when these Carter retreads, party hacks, and obsolete Vietnam-War era clunkers are our most respected counterinsurgency experts. A
God help us all.
Well of course Fred, that is only your opinion. So tell me what does your crystal ball tell you what the best stragity is thats what we really need to know! nespa?
Everyone on the commission is clueless. Are we negotiating START treaties with Soviets, or is this 1973 all over again? Where are the 4GW, post-conflcit experts, civilian or military? Phased withdrawal, and train the Iraqis, now that is revolutionary. What a waste of everyone’s time.
This crap is the reason I hate all politicians. Pure incompetence. It’s always CYA, hide, pass the buck, and blame. The US is getting played like a fiddle, who the hell is in charge around here?
Not being a foreign policy expert, but having read the report, I agree with the assessment.
Most troubling is that it does not address the heart of the problem: Some powerful leaders there want a civil war, because they expect to with; al-Sadr’s aide even openly said that in a Wash Post interview. They won’t feel pressured when we threaten to withdraw.
Other interesting moments:
* Our abysmal investment in intel on the ground there.
* Our disorganization when it comes to training police
* When gathering data on violent incidents, the military only records it if US personnel are injured, according to the report. So if a bomb goes off, and no US personnel are injured, it didn’t happen. One day, the ISG counted 1,100 incidents, while the military counted 93.
* They met with everyone from Bush to the Iraqi Communist Party, but did not meet,
- Al-Sistani
- Al-Sadr (though they met an aide)
- House GOP leaders (Hastert, etc. They did meet Dem House leaders, and Senate leaders from both parties).
* Most of the organizations behind the report were GOP.
This typical leftist anti-military group, is missing the Key ingredient, VICTORY!!
God Bless all of you in the Military! I have such a high respect for all of you! I wish our politians were not tying your hands with there “PC” policies.
Please be carefull out there and know that the majority of us “True Americans” are behind you guy’s 100%. Thank you for all your sacrifices from you and your families. Thank you from the bottom of my heart for your service to this Country!!
God BLess!
Mark Aaron & Family
god it’s so tiresome…….
(1) publicly, fervently, acknowledge that we have a president who hasn’t the balls to ‘fess up that Iraq wasn’t the walk he/they thought it was going to be; and who is unable to face the families of those military casualties he/they have caused.
(2) get the hell out, (as we did in Nam)
(3) allow the remaining factions to fight it out themselves (as we did in Nam)
(4) watch as the infighting spreads to neighboring countries (as Nam did to Laos and Cambodia)
(5) watch as this latest fiasco develops its own “killing fields” (as in SE Asia)
(6) isolate the surviving factions/states economicaly, (as much as possible)in order to make them rebuild on their own (as we did for Nam)
(7) see, when CAPITALISM finally wins….and Iraq/Afganistan become more interested in LIVING well instead of dying….and they become the next “economic powerhouse”….that Nam is rising to become.
there. seven point program.
done.
Here’s an alternative no one seems to talk about, but I think is the only one that will work:
1) initiate a massive conventional US Military buildup over 2 years a) Double the size of the Army and Marine force b) completely rebuild and toughen the weaponry that has been destroyed (M1’s etc) in conjunction with additional air assets (sorry Navy, we have enough subs) etc.
This buildup must occur quickly and massively with whatever funds are needed. Then begin facing down countries such as Syria, Iran, and NK with the ultimatum (and the military muscle to back it up): stop supporting terrorism or we will invade and do regime change in your country in short order (but not like Iraq).
Otherwise, we have failed and the terrorists have won. There is no other alternative than this one, in my opinion.
The only thing worse than this handwringingpalooza is the toadish “tying our hands” tripe that was popularized by the ‘we could have won vietnam’ crowd.
“This typical leftist anti-military group, is missing the Key ingredient, VICTORY!! God Bless all of you in the Military! I have such a high respect for all of you! I wish our politians were not tying your hands with there “PC” policies.”
Blah blah blah blah PC policies blah blah tying your hands blah blah if we just bomb the shit out of ho chi minh he’ll give up blah blah.
Listen, fool.
The world would be a much simpler place if everyone just wore gray uniforms with silver eagles and weird symbols on their helmets when riding around in tanks doing bad things. Too bad nobody does that anymore.
The United States had demonstrated that it is utterly incapable of performing counterinsurgency warfare, because all we understand is big fucking bradleys and big fucking planes and big fucking B-1s blowing the shit out of big fucking soviet tanks. The guy in the black pajamas in the Mekong Delta and the Sunni Triangle seem to be proving this all over again.
I have news for you: World War II was over 60 years ago. MOVE. THE. FUCK. ON.
Modern warfare involves “tying hands” because nobody can point to the average man, woman or child walking down the street in Iraq and say — he’s the enemy! That’s why COIN is fucking difficult hard thankless work, and why the military frankly doesn’t like it… it’s not their core competency (see above).
I resent you goddamn toads, because I remember you fucks from all those damn victory rallies back in 03… wearing your tacky ass American Flag shirts and dressing your kids up in “kick ass” shirts… oooh yeah, git some baby, git some… gonna kick some ass and it’s gonna be all good. Now that you’re up the river, you’re whining about it, complaining that ‘it wasn’t supposed to be like this’. Eff you.
You toads talk about “victory” all day, but when pressed to define it, you give nothing more than rah rah rah bullshit and the ‘we should just nuke em’ all’ tripe that demonstrates the intellectual efforts of a troglodyte.
You don’t deserve democracy, frankly. People deserve the government they get, and boy, did you get it.
Some adults get together and actually try to present some ideas about what to do, and you start bawling in your panties. I would just as soon you said thank you, and good day. Either that, or pick up a weapon and stand a post.
V
Maybe its just me but am I the only one who thinks that a panel of proffesional POLITICIANS are not the best people to work up a plan for a WAR?
If I got a heart desease I don’t go to the local Pharmacist becuase he looks familure, smiles nice, talks good game, and knows a little about heart desease plus every other desease. I go to the stuck up, ugly, a*shole HEART DOCTOR becuase he doesn’t know a little about Heart Medicine he has dedicated his entire life to the subject. He maynot not give me a warm fuzzy and tell me what I want to hear but he can diognose and come up with treatments painfull or not. And I can always get the warm fuzzy from the Pharmacist when I pick up the script the DOCTOR wrote.
Bottom line blue ribbin panel my a*s this was nothing more than a bunch of washed up politicals that did what politicals do compromise and try to make everyone happy and therefore make everyone equally unhappy.
Blue Ribbon for WAR would be table full of 4+star Generals that all have spent thier entire lives in the study and implimentation of WAR. That is Blue ribbon that is were you get answers. F*ck the Pharmicist he can’t diognose go to the DOCTOR IN HIS SPECIALTY and get treatment that will kill the DESEASE wether its a ugly treatment or not is Irrelevent.
I saw CNN interview a soldgier the other day and he had a amazing KISS answer to the violence in Iraq here it is “I don’t get everyone’s worry at some point someone will win and they will stop killing eachother, then we can deal with them”. I think this guy actually understands what most of US common folk understand that when the Radical Sunni get done fighting the Radical Shia (Both US Enemies) the winner will be weaker and easier for US to deal with not to mention the loser will be already beaten. People forget wether we stay or run the daily death in Iraq will continue. If we stay we will be in position to influence the outcome and assist the Moderates if we run it will be Iran on one side and Radical Sunni nations on the other that influence the outcome and get to assist thier OWN RADICALS while crushing killing the moderates chances. See Afghanistan thier was somewhat moderate possible allies for the west in the N Alliance who when we abandoned were overrun by the Radical Taliban influenced and assisted by Pakistani Radicals.
you can influence people you can assist people but you can’t control them.
“‘It is a report to solve American problems, and not to solve Iraq’s problems,’ said Ayad al-Sammarai, an influential Sunni Muslim politician.”
I’m confused, Ayad – was this ever in doubt? If I’m not, mistaken the last guy to argue that the US can solve Iraq’s problems for it with zero investment of effort or goodwill from Iraqis was the guy whose picture is now coming down from office walls in the Pentagon, ca. AD 2003.
We’re doing our best to figure out how to fix this situation with as little damage as possible to you guys – but if you think that the fact that we’re the idiots who uncorked this bottle of demons absolves you of all responsibility for actually *being* those demons – sorry, pal.
Baker is a Realists and he is Sunni biased. He, and most of the World, is interested in peace and stability for the here and now. Realists don’t solve underlying problems, they cover them up. They percolate under the surface for generations. Just kick the can down the road, or ignore it. It’s all about the status quo. The major World powers (G21) should not tolerate certain governments. Iraq deserved a chance to find their way in the new world, the US just happened to be a dysfunctional “father”.
The problem lies when one wants to get involved into these troubled areas. As we see in Iraq, you better know WTF you are doing, and you can’t be half assed about it. You also need as many allies as possible. An “occupation lite” will never work, but the US will never get away with the “heavy handed” tactics we used in past conflicts. Democracy is over rated and can’t be forced upon a population from the top down anyway. Better figure out how to handle something like this before one gets involved in the next conflict.
Iraq will probably be torn apart like Lebanon, with the help us its neighbors. Lebanon was a 20 year mess and it’s not over. If that is what we want, I do, all of the Hollywood humanitarians better not whine like they did in Yugoslavia, Rwanda, and Sudan.
The US should not take sides between the Sunnis and Shia, because they are not our allies. We should defend the Kurds if they need us because they have something to lose, and to keep Turkey at bay. Iran not our enemy and they will have nukes.
There is no military solution to curb the violence, and there is no political solution outside of the “Green Zone”. There will be no peace for Iraq as a whole, for a decade. Eventually Iraq will find its natural balance, and then we can do business again.
BTW- I, once again have a similar world view as Campbell, and agree with his likely scenario. If 30 years in the future, Iraq, is the new Vietnam, then all of this BS and sacrifice would be worth it, and we won. The free movements of capital, goods, services, people and ideas are more important than democracy.
Good Morning Folks,
Getting in late on this, West Coast time, there is not much left to say about this flawed report that all of you have not said. President Bush should reach into his drawer, pull out a Red Pencil and mark an “F” on the cover page and send it back.
I have not been able to read the whole document as of yet but from what I see there is 79 answers but no question(s). From a military perspective the War phase of Iraq was won in 03 when Saddams Government was toppled and his military ceased to exist. So losing the war kinda makes no sense.
Another point lacking in this report is just where is the U.S’s. interest in all this. What will we get from a make nice Iraq?
Oh well, who an I to question the Ten Smartist people in America. I can still remember Camealot and those smart people also.
ALLONS,
Byron Skinner
Blue Ribbon for WAR would be table full of 4+star Generals that all have spent thier entire lives in the study and implimentation of WAR. That is Blue ribbon that is were you get answers. F*ck the Pharmicist he can’t diognose go to the DOCTOR IN HIS SPECIALTY and get treatment that will kill the DESEASE wether its a ugly treatment or not is Irrelevent.
Oh yeah. Guys like Generals Pace and Myers. Fearless guys, without a political bone in their body, who aren’t afraid to say what they really mean.
Thanks for the laugh, genius.
SGlover you sir are the genious I should have known that a bunch of retired PROFFESIONAL POLITICIANS would be much more pure and without political bones.
Stupid me,,, to actually accept the fact that life is not perfect and thier will with anyone always be some amount of biased, imagine the thought that when looking for advice on a WAR effort to seek advice from men who have dedicated thier entire lives to the study of WAR over a politician that at best may have served under one of these selected Generals in the military or even better as a appointed cabnet member by some other Politician.
Hell man letting politicians run a war effort has worked so well through history (Vietnam being the shinning example) we should do all we can at every opportunity during a war be sure to let the politicals make all the military dicisions.
Yeah cause it’s not about winning its about the warm Fuzzy.
Vincente you’re a moron.
Noone is saying we should nuke the hell out of anyone-everyone is pointing out that the effort in Iraq has been hamstrung and their are things that can be done to widen the effort.
Negotiating with Iran and Syria-the major suppliers of the insurgency is not the solution.
Suggesting that people who disagree with you want to “nuke ‘em all” is the stupidest way to mischarachterize people who disagree with you.
Or maybe you think people feel that way-which is sad especially when the current policy in the Iraq shows it’s obvious people feel differently.
This panel is not a bunch of “adults”. It’s a group of political fixers who have no business being involved in the decision making process. Yet somehow you elevate they to an untouchable status-when like anyone who makes a political decision or analysis, they deserve a certain level of scrutiny.
They didn’t even leave the green zone for God’s sake.
If you bothered to read the whole post you are commenting on, you’ll note this-
“The military recommendations issued yesterday by the Iraq Study Group are based more on hope than history and run counter to assessments made by some of its own military advisers,” says the Times.”
The ISG hasn’t a clue.
Further the ISG bases it’s recommendations on the theory that Iran and Syria see an immediate stabilization in Iraq – which is not the case.
The ISG have determined that Israel is linked to the issue-which it isn’t-but if it were we’d have no ability to guarantee a change in Israeli policy.
Most importantly the policy the ISG suggests rewarding terrorists and supporters of terrorists with legitimacy and negotiating power. Even an idiot like yourself must understand that this only encourages more terrorism.
“The United States had demonstrated that it is utterly incapable of performing counterinsurgency warfare, because all we understand is big fucking bradleys and big fucking planes and big fucking B-1s blowing the shit out of big fucking soviet tanks. “
The US has proven is does counterinsurgency really damn well. Unfortunately you can’t win against an insurgency unless you cut off it’s support-we haven’t tried to remove Iranian and Syrian support, but thinking we can ferret out an Insurgency in 4 years is nuts.
OH – we have pretty fairly leveled out insurgents in most of the country-it’s just three provinces that are a problem.
So you’re wrong again.
It took Guiliani alot longer to clean up NY, that’s more like what we need to do. Given time we can do it.
The funniest thing is the insurgency has managed to penetrate the media reporting in Iraq. Google “ap” and “jalil hussein”-you’ll see how we aren’t getting the whole truth. If this were a Democrat in the White House, you know we’d have a meida totally behind the war-not constant criticism and talk of quagmire from Day 1.
It’s good that you’re on the internet ranting and whining, pointing fingers at folks who disagree with you. It reminds me why I spent a year in Iraq fighting, knowing their were assholes at home who haven’t a clue but like to yell. That’s what I wa fighting for, so guys like yourself don’t have to face Mecca 5 times a day-unless it’s your choice. Then you’d really bitch.
You know, my sister’s dog eats her baby’s dirty diapers-that dog is smarter than you.
Thank you and Good Day.
I think Ayad al-Sammarai and Byron Skinner have made the most profound contributions to this discussion:
1) The ISG report offers answers, but no questions. They didn’t take the time characterize the problems in Iraq or even a case for why their recommendations are the right ones.
My impression of the report is that the ISG wasted American dollars and time to come up with feel-good recommendations geared towards the largest and lowest common denominators. What ever happened to steely-eyed skepticism in Washington?
2) The ISG recommendations focus on American ass-saving at the expense of Iraqis. Does a realist like Baker actually think that pulling out Iraq even part way will stop the violence?
Since they aren’t overly invested in their weak democratic institutions, Iraqis are sorting out their politics the old fashion way, violence. Legitimizing the Iraqi government and the democratic process may be possible, but it would undoubtedly require more resources than we’ve been willing to commit thus far.
The U.S. needs to put up the resources or get out in Iraq. We’ve half-assed it for 3 years and what has it gotten us? A bill for $400 billion and almost 3000 flag-drapped coffins. Trying to win in Iraq on the cheap has been a disservice to our men and women in uniform.
Yea after reading a few pages i couldnt continue reading the report. Its not really worth reading in my opinion